Richard Wilson (00:10.169)
Hello and welcome to the 966 episode number 129. I'm your host, Richard Wilson. I thank you for listening in. Our 966 audience is large. It is loyal and continues to grow at a tremendous clip. We are, we are truly grateful. If you haven't subscribed yet, please do. let us continue to bring you thoughtful and informed and timely insight on the remarkable journey that Saudi Arabia is in the midst of. It's an incredible story.

Our guest today is my friend Todd Albert Nims, who is many, many things apart from being Saudi Arabia's cinema OG. And just to embarrass you, Todd, I'm going to read your short bio from the American Chamber of Commerce AMCHAM KSA website, because it captures it. Quote, an award winning creative executive blazing new trails in the cinema and immersive design spaces. Todd Nims has produced notable work such as movies, Juud and Born a King as well as created Saudi Arabia's first large scale, fully immersive theatrical production, the supernatural murder mystery, Bait al -Dahaleezi. In addition to his role as chair of the American Chamber of Commerce in Saudi Arabia's arts, culture and entertainment committee, Mr. Nims is owner of Empty Quarter, a Saudi based production company and is a guest lecturer for cinematic science at KAUST. Hello, my friend. Welcome to the 966.

Todd Albert Nims (01:34.926)
Hi, hello, it's good to be back. Yeah, we'll have to have a lot to catch up on I think since our, it's been, you were just telling me before we started this, it's been a year and a half and I'm surprised it's been, it seems like yesterday we talked. So it's good to be back.
Richard Wilson (01:47.481)
It's true. Last time it was December twenty twenty two and I was really surprised and in the pace of the change there, the lots has gone on. Last time I saw you, I think it was last year. I think you we went out and had some to eat. I was thinking about you and your your FJ Cruiser wondering if you'd been out to the desert of late.
Todd Albert Nims (02:09.838)
I did my yearly Rub Al-Khalii trip. I mean, I guess that's been a few months ago now, but we did a New Year's Rub Al-Khali trip, which is the usual trip we do and spend about five days, four nights in the desert. And it was fantastic this year. Just beautiful.
Richard Wilson (02:25.273)
it's got to be priceless. Well, so we're going to dive in. We're going to turn this over to Todd, but I want to I want to give some context part of the part of the motivation to get together again is that last month was the sixth year since theaters were reopened in Saudi Arabia after a 35 year hiatus. This is six years. And these are just numbers, but they're important numbers because it reflects the extraordinary pace of change. During that six year period, revenue has been 986 million, almost a billion dollars. Over 61 million tickets have been sold. 1 ,971 films, almost 2 ,000 films have been screened. 45 of those are local productions. And just in the last year alone, 19 local films. Saudi Arabia now has 66 movie theaters with approximately 618 screens and and just over 63 ,000 seats. It's operated, operators are around six companies and facilities in 22 cities. So these are numbers, they're stats, but they're useful because this is extraordinary. This is a real market now and it has its own weight.
And we're gonna start with Todd. Todd is into so many things, but also what just recently happened earlier this month, May, was the 10th Saudi Film Festival. which actually predates the Red Sea International Film Festival by a good bit. And it's sort of that when I say Todd Albert Nims is the OG of Saudi cinema, it's because he was there at the beginning. So you were there at the first one, 2008, 10th Saudi Film Festival. Can you tell us a little bit about this one and how it's evolved?
Todd Albert Nims (04:09.326)
Yes, I mean, I could tell you pretty well, because I was first -hand, like you said, I was there at the first one. So, often I'll move the gentleman who started the festival, he used to be the head of the Dammam Cultural Society. That was sort of, they used to have the precursor to the Ministry of Culture and all these things way back when was the Dammam Society, well, the Society for, the Saudi Society for Arts and Culture, I guess, and they had, you know, locations in... cities throughout Riyadh and throughout the kingdom, I guess. But they were just very small, kind of didn't do a lot. And Ahmed got in the sense that we should do a film festival. And he kind of asked the head of the society at the time. And he said, look, OK, do it, but we don't want to hear about it. Do it, but don't make a fuss. Just quietly invite people.
Todd Albert Nims (05:07.95)
We don't want to hear reviews reports. We don't want to like, just do it. You have our blessing, but don't make it a big deal. So at that time, my first movie, I had just screened it and I'd been invited to re -ed to screen it. And so this was like a month or two, a few months before they were doing the festival. And then I screened it too, that public screening in February, 2008. And I met with a couple of local filmmakers and yeah, I just was invited to come to the D 'Amman and be there and check out all the local films. And it was just, it was this at the society and it was in one room and they had a screen set up and a projector and some speakers. And that was the festival. There was a lot of people played their local films. I mean, we have to remember that the Dubai Film Festival had had one year at that point. And there was again, a lot of, a lot of, that was, this was the time of DSLR filmmaking. So it just really kind of started to come into its own. So you have people with photography cameras were able to make movies and a lot of Saudis and photographers are starting to make films and edit them on their own computers it was it was like a that was all fairly new stuff because technology had really lowered the cost so people were making movies and that was what they were screening and That was even before subtitles. I had to ask a lot of people what the hell was going on And they had a ward and everything, you know, they had this award it was the award they still have the Golden Palm award.

Todd Albert Nims (06:37.646)
What's crazy is you got to think that's 2008 and then this year, 2024, which is not 10 years later, of course, is the 10th anniversary. So if that doesn't give you a hint as to how much of a struggle and what he was doing was really unique and couldn't really happen every year, nothing else could. Because obviously they weren't able to have it every year. So there was, it was off and on.

They had to stop it for a few years. I believe they did it the next year in 2009 and then they stopped it for a few years and did another one and then they stopped it. And it wasn't till I worked, I started working at Ithra in 2010 and then I think it took us two years and we were able to quietly do a deal between Ithra and Saudi, you know, them and to bring... the festival kind of under its or his wing. But even then we didn't even have it in the first, it wasn't open. But we were quietly helping to fund it without saying we were funding. We said, okay, we want to go part of it, but don't say anything. It was still like, you know, we don't want to, don't associate it with it. And I think that was like, well, we did that maybe the first time in 2014, I want to say. So maybe 15, maybe it was 15. Anyway, even that was touch and go.
Richard Wilson (08:00.505)
And Todd, before we go, tell the audience what Ithra is.
Todd Albert Nims (08:04.782)
Sure. Okay, so, Ithra, I worked there for about six years. ITRA, or sometimes you hear it, ITRA means Enlightenment or Enrichment. The longer name for the facility is the King Abdulaziz Center for World Culture. This is an institution that was conceived in 2009, in 2009 there was a foundational cornerstone laid. I was kind of hired there as the... film producer, it's the title, but really it was developing their cinema and their program and their first feature film and their programming and kind of doing things like this, bringing in the Saudi Film Festival and kind of getting things going with the film community. And once the building was finally up, which didn't actually open until 2017, because it was such an ambitious building and there were so many things, but this is a world -class, unique, institution that had the country's first cinema, which I was privileged to help launch. That's before all the hype. Actually, it was the very first public cinema, I should say. The first Broadway -style theater, which has all the capabilities of Broadway theater. The first children's museum. And also has a museum in its own right and a large library and archive, national archives. And it's also just a work of art. If you go there, the roof of it is made of a whole botanical garden.

The design is a beautiful, it was international competition in Snowhetta, who are the designers out, the same guys that made the BMW museum and a lot of other iconic buildings. They were the ones who designed this and who said build it was just, they had to do first ever's for many things actually. In fact, there is an episode, what's that show called? The thing like.

There's a show about engineering and buildings, like the big, I can't remember the name, but it was an episode. There was a whole episode on this building because it is so iconic and so unique. I mean, if you ever have a chance, look it up. It's absolutely gorgeous and beautiful. And if you have a chance to come to Eastern province, you should see it. It's really different.
Richard Wilson (10:09.273)
It's a gorgeous building.
Richard Wilson (10:19.801)
Well, and from those humble beginnings in 2008, and you sort of trying to find opportunities when the social environment and everything will allow for it, this year, 76 film screenings. I mean, 53 titles competing for 36 awards. I mean, all sorts of workshops. It's really become quite established and quite a big deal.
Todd Albert Nims (10:44.814)
Yeah, so I do want to say a little bit about this year, which is amazing. Every year it's gotten better and better. And this year was no different. This year was bigger and better than the year before. What I really find unique about the Saudi Film Festival is it is very grounded in the local films. And it's a much more modest festival, I would say, than the Red Sea Film Festival. We still have to save money and everything that Red Sea does. That being said, it's very organically grown.
And that's something that gives it a nice feel. This year in particular was just touching. They did such a good job on the, especially the opening was great. They had three things that really touched me in the opening. And I think most people, one was that they had a little video on the history of the festival. And again, starting with 2008 and then kind of, you just sort of saw clips of the growth and people talking and it was, it was very, very, you could see the growth, right? From what it was and how a part of what I liked about this video and all three things is they all talked, including this video, talked about the struggle that how things, there's a word they have in Saudi now and I'm going to forget the name now. It starts with an S, but for the times that they're calling it the restricted, or it's kind of like the times that were more strict, I guess you could say, basically between 1980 and about, well up until... maybe 2016 when the religious police lost their ability to arrest people. And that time, they're giving a name to that now. The Sephirot, so I'm gonna get it wrong. Anyway, I don't wanna say it, because I'm gonna get it wrong, but it starts with an S. They referenced that a lot in this. Hey, we were building this through this time, and it was difficult. We faced a lot of challenges, but we knew it was the right thing to do, and now look, it's after everything's accepted. And that was followed by a second kind of after a few more things and a few more opening remarks and other things. Then there was a gentleman that was honored who is a very famous actor in Saudi who was on this show called Tash Matash, which Tash Matash, if you, or Tash Matash is kind of a comedy show, but it also had a lot of social commentary at a time, again, during this time where it wasn't so easy to talk about things. And they were sort of rambling against some of maybe what we're seeing is, you know,

Todd Albert Nims (13:12.494)
some of this restrictiveness that people weren't really feeling, you know? And this guy, he was in the show, which I thought all of them were, were just kind of famous and didn't have any issues. Again, this video, he opens up about, you know, they're given to this award, but then of course, in the film they're showing, he's talking about where he came, you know, how he got started, which he was from a small village. And it was really interesting. And a part of it was how, at one point,

He just got lucky and there were some that came to town. They weren't casting anybody, but his brother would say, my brother's already, he's the only one in town interested in this. And then so the director gave him a chance. He loves, you know, this guy and he starts acting and stuff. Well, his family apparently was not okay with that. He ends up having to run away from home, goes to Kuwait to this drama school, shows up, doesn't have any money to pay for it and says, look, I came here, I don't have any money. Can I go to this school?
Todd Albert Nims (14:07.374)
And you know what they said, you know what, you can't, yes. And he was there for a month and his brother found him and dragged him back. His brother came to Kuwait and got him and dragged him back home somehow, you know, and who knows, this is before the age of cell phones and everything else, but you know, back then we're kind of around somehow. They figured out he was there and they grabbed him. But he talked about how people would give him such a hard, you know, not just his own family, but people in general would give him a really hard time. And he had to.

Todd Albert Nims (14:34.222)
keep his family name quiet, you know, more details, you know, he had to keep these things quiet. It was really the really touching part. You know, he talked about more details that I want to go. But of course, how difficult it was to, but in his heart, he knew this was what he wanted to do. And he kept doing it and he was successful at it. But even then he was a success. No one was proud of his success. And.

And how touched he was now that things have opened up. And people now, all of a sudden, in the recent years, are starting to say, my gosh, we're so proud of you for sticking with what you do. We think you're amazing. And he's not used to getting this kind of praise, and it's been touching him. And then the whole thing, video, I did. What part of it did I freeze up on?

Todd Albert Nims (15:41.07)
So with all the change, the opening up, people started saying they were proud of him. And so impressed and proud that he had stuck with him doing what he's doing. We're proud of you. You're a good example of us in Saudi. And thank you for what you do. And he was never used to hearing that before. That was a new thing for him. And he was overwhelmed with all this praise.

Well, the video ends and then he gets up on stage, accepts this award, you know, bringing tears to his eyes. And then he actually turns the audience and says, my family's in the audience. This is the first time they have ever come to something physically that I've ever been honored for. And this is the first time I've ever been honored in my life. Which is just, this guy is very, you just can't believe it's someone that supposedly is so famous and having this happen in her struggle at home.

Then there was a third video that was the film they screened at the very end of the opening. And it was a documentary film, which I have never done that before, actually. It's always been fictional narratives or narrative narrative or what we call narratives. So it's not a documentary. This was a great documentary because it was on music and it was on Saudis who were doing music and have been doing music.

from the nineties or eighties all the way up until now. And it was a very similar theme, right? They were also talking about the restricted times. These guys were talking about how they just loved the music and they started falling in love with it and how music's their life. And they started playing it and they all learned instruments. Each followed about seven different people. One of them, funny enough, was this gentleman who had a

still has a metal band, heavy metal band called Wasted Land. And I known him ever since 2008. In fact, that was the first person to ever interview him way back then. Because I was looking into doing a documentary on music and stuff back then, which ended up becoming a narrative. So it got shifted. This guy and his band I met back then. And what's funny is I didn't have the full backstory until now when I heard him.

Todd Albert Nims (18:05.198)
Talk about it. But again, he talked about the struggles like all of them did about how they love music and then He said all the bullying he got and all these other things and then he was in a situation where His mother was sick and he wasn't sure if he continued with the band, but then they got this call from Dubai They were doing a battle of the bands They wanted like a heavy metal battle of the bands and they wanted their band to come because they'd heard things about them So he get they get invited and his mom dies two weeks before
Todd Albert Nims (18:35.022)
this concert and the fans man saying don't you know don't come you know you don't have to come this is don't worry we don't have to do it like Anderson says no I want to do it he gets up there and he said something just opened up his item and sang his heart out and they won you know they won they all they won the whole thing and he was he was just it was it really and and

Richard Wilson (18:54.665)
This is made for the movies.

Todd Albert Nims (19:03.438)
It was just touching. I think there was a dry eye in the room, you know, because of just the whole, I mean, his one among many stories that were touching in that documentary and a lot of those people I knew, funny enough. And some of the more recent too, like some of the people that have recently become big through Middle East and some of the women actually have gone like a DJ, female DJ and another woman who's gotten big with her music and film. So.

It was just great because it all had that similar theme of, and they were all saying the same thing of, look, we, people were telling us these things are wrong, but we knew inside they weren't wrong. They were right. We shouldn't be doing it. And now we're so happy that, that everyone looks to us and is saying, we're proud of you. Keep going, keep going. And even though it wasn't the case before to have that feeling now is special. And I think that that's what everyone feels. it did remind me though, I have to say it reminded me of.

because I was in the middle of all that back then. So I remember that feeling in a different way. I mean, I'm an expat, but I used to get a similar type of feeling from, well, what are you doing doing this stuff in Saudi? And why are you thinking there's no future in doing it? And you're crazy and you know, all this kind of stuff. So it's nice to feel like now that the tide has changed that people all of a sudden go, you know, you're not crazy, you're a genius. But they say that to people now, the people that have been doing it.
Todd Albert Nims (20:30.894)
me included, you get that kind of, that was wonderful that you're doing that now. So it's nice to see the table turn and what an opening, it was a fantastic opening.

Richard Wilson (20:43.417)
Well, and it speaks to something we talked about in 966 when we talk with artists, you know, music, whatever, whatever the medium, and they're they're adamant, adamant feel that, OK, and you refer to the restricted times, but that storytelling and creative creativity was still ongoing and that, you know, Saudis were out there.

Todd Albert Nims (21:03.374)
Yes, it is.

Richard Wilson (21:06.489)
trying to express themselves and that, you know, the Saudi Film Festival and just the nature of this event, how it seems, as you say, it's more local, seems to have been sort of a lifeline and a platform for many people. But it really is interesting now that we're on the other side, quote unquote, post 2016, where you can talk about the restricted times, you can talk about the hardships, you can talk about how people didn't feel comfortable, you know, putting themselves out there, but that they were still creating. And I think that's really interesting takeaway from that. I will say one more thing that was about the opening of the festival, just that was also unique because it's important to note. There was an opening of a building, the Saudi Film Association building in Kobar, that's a private, I think, or it's a nonprofit, which is going to be a great home for the filmmakers in Eastern province. Well, probably it's for everybody in the whole country, but definitely it'll help out the Eastern province people a lot.

But it has production facility. It's a place where they're going to be able to do events year -round now, not just at ISRA and probably be able to hold more events in the future festivals. That was another big significant thing for the 10th anniversary that I'm very impressed they pulled off. And a lot of it's worked through private funding and there is some public funding as well. It was very cool to see. That was also very nice.

Richard Wilson (22:33.913)
So I want to march through some of these other amazing things you're into. So I'm going to pick and choose if you'll bear with me. First of all, the Red Sea International Film Festival will be coming up in December this year. So that's sort of, you know, that's another that you referenced it. It's a huge deal. It's got a lot of backing. It's quite glitzy. That first was presented, I think, I was lost in 2021. So I think this is the third or the fourth. This would be the fourth.
Richard Wilson (23:03.989)
So it's quite impressive, but let's talk about something you've got your hand out your hand and you last month you had, I want to talk about the golf film festival. And then I'd like for you to tell us a little bit about this second US Saudi film forum that's taking place in this month that you are directing. You know, again, this is this is the nine six six. We talk about US interests. We talk about our relationship with Saudi Arabia. So US Saudi film forum is compelling.

Richard Wilson (23:31.673)
But the Gulf Film Festival, the Gulf Film Festival again, because Saudi Arabia, you know, really wants to be the nexus of the region. And so it goes out and get these things. What is the Gulf Film Festival? Is this the first one?

Todd Albert Nims (23:32.014)
Yes.

Todd Albert Nims (23:47.022)
The Gulf Film Festival is a bit of a one -off in Saudi because it is a regional festival. I wasn't even aware of this until we went to it. So this is the fourth one they've had, but the last time they had it was probably in 2009 or 10 or something. It's been a while, maybe 11, maybe 11, but it was a while back. They kind of revived it to have it in Riyadh. They had had it already in Qatar, I think once in Qatar, once in Dubai, once in Abu Dhabi, if I'm not mistaken. So this was the fourth one in Riyadh.

Richard Wilson (24:01.561)
All right, it's another, yeah, all right.

Todd Albert Nims (24:16.238)
It's a bit of, it's much more of a less of an established sort of a thing where they screen a lot of golf movies and they have a few workshops. But I wouldn't say it's as organized or is, I mean, largely organized or intended as something that's like a more established one country festival, like the Saudi film festival or even the Red Sea, because it's not going to happen again. If it does, it'll be another five, 10 years. But probably it would be like in another city too. It wouldn't be in Riyadh, it would be in Jeddah or something. So it was great. It was a good showcase. It's just another thing they had this year. Just, I mean, like since we last talked, I briefly mentioned they had this last, I mean, basically between November and now they had, or May last year, they had the Saudi, they had the Ignite series, Ignite the Film, which was held by, that was a big thing on kind of filmmaking. And I was, got to be a part of putting that together and moderating that. And then we did also the, there was the Saudi film.

Confects which was put together site from commission, which was kind of again a little bit about Saudi film almost like a Mart like a place with all the Mart was like every all the business side of the way and they had some talks as well panel discussions a lot of showcasing and then they had the Saudi film or that was called the film criticism conference, which was kind of

Unique, I don't even know if they've ever had that kind of thing anywhere, but it was getting all the film critics, which a lot of people don't really listen to anymore, but they brought down here in Saudi to talk about film and criticize film. And these are the people that write the columns, write for film critiques. And it used to be a big thing that people had to pay attention to. I don't think it is much anymore. Now it's more Rotten Tomatoes and IMDB Stars and everything.

Todd Albert Nims (26:02.894)
There's still a thing, right? And I think in the Middle East, especially, they brought a lot of the Arab ones and talked about that. And like we just said, then there's the Gulf Film Festival. And before that, to bring it around full circle to what you asked about, is the U .S., the first U .S.-Saudi film forum was held last year, almost around this time. It was June 1st and June 2nd of last year. And what that is is I applied for a US government grant about two or three, well, I guess it would be three years ago now, from the chamber, from the American chamber, and got it from the State Department to put this forum together, which really is a series of things we do throughout the year, but it ends in this big forum in Riyadh. And what it was and what it is ...

I've obviously been in this industry a long time. I've seen everyone I've been with. We've always talked from the beginning since I got here in 2007. I always talk to people, we want to make this an industry. And everyone always, that's what we always talk about. All us old timers quote unquote from the industry are always talking about being an industry. And that's really the focus of this forum. It's really getting all the private and public sector heads, as well as some of the US industry heads that are on the business side together. So it's not the actors, it's not the directors, it's the producers, it's the legal side, it's the government regulators, it's everyone from the US, it's the US industry and the Saudi industry, see how we get together and grow the industries. We have a round table discussions or four round table discussions, where we hit up actual challenges to growth in these different areas. So for instance, last year, we had some great

People come down and we did one session on legal issues, one on co -production, one on finance, and one on distribution. And we had different US representatives that were key players in those areas. So share how we do it in a way, how it's working, what's happening right now on the US slash international side. And then we're turning around to our local counterparts comparing is that what's going on here and where are the differences, where are the similarities and do we need to shift?

Todd Albert Nims (28:28.974)
so we can all see these things grow together in a way that works. So it's kind of the start of a studio. You have studios, everyone come together and try to make the business environment nice, right? To make it sustainable.

Richard Wilson (28:39.641)
I love this and this is very much on your producer side. You have your creative side and director side, but your producer side is actually trying to make things happen. And this is really critical because these are the folks that come in and can decide, well, you know, what's my incentive? What are my incentives to be here? What are the filming sides? Can I get the technical, you know, can I get the crew that's needed to do this?

Richard Wilson (29:03.961)
locally, what do I need to do? I mean, these are the nuts and bolts of putting on a production that people have to answer before they decide to put on a production. I think it's brilliant that you're bringing them in. And to finish that question, what is their take? And are they saying, so in other words, are they going, okay, well, this is ready. This is ready for prime time? Or are they saying, well, you still need this, you still need that.

Todd Albert Nims (29:23.47)
So that's why this is needed because there's a lot of misunderstandings on both sides. There's also a lot of gaps on both sides. And the truth is, is people that want to do business or want to do films here from the US or internationally, also the Saudis that want to do stuff perhaps with US companies or productions, international productions or co -productions, there is a lot of, there's a lot of...

Everyone wants to get the correct up -to -date situation from people that don't have a vested interest in either side. That's what we're trying to do is try to say, hey, listen, you might've heard about such and such incentives and they're happening, but right now there's, you know, these are the challenges and you're hearing it from the, but these are being fixed by, and the great thing is that the people that are doing them are saying, yes, we, we, these are the things that we're actually fixing it by this and this and this. So you're hearing live.

from everybody and we're actually solving and resolving problems in real time. So I'll give you an example of what I mean. So we had one of the top entertainment companies in Hollywood for legal firms, DL Piper, Tom R. from DL Piper, he's the guy that does movies and also he's big in gaming as well. We walked through some of the legal journey of a film and we looked at, you know,

kind of, because there's a lot of contracting in the film and all different levels from both just making the film and also to getting distributed. And we looked at what, and then we had the local law firms talking about, okay, this is what we're doing. And then we realized through that, one of the challenges that came up is like, you know what, there's not standardized contracting that melds well with international contracts. Also either locally, they're all different contracts and always protecting everybody and et cetera, et cetera. What we need to Saudi industry is so,

let's say it's just, it's growing right now, standardized contracts and help it grow huge, right? So to have the sort of a base template of contracts across the chain that would allow people to, I mean, you know, producers and others to use at least a standard contract, still go to a lawyer to get it tweaked a little, that works both with international players and locally would be fantastic. Well, guess what?

Todd Albert Nims (31:43.79)
A lot of the local legal firms after this got together and they said, you know, this is going to make a deal with Russell. Let's all pitch in and create some template contracts. They did that. And that's one of the things we're going to announce as a win from last year. But by acknowledging this was a challenge and it would help a lot, that's kind of when it was acted upon by a lot of the private and sometimes the public. I mean, the government side has done things as well. We have the film commission, we have the site of the intellectual property, we have the cultural development fund, we have...

Todd Albert Nims (32:11.822)
We have all the end, we have, but we also have NBC, we have Self House 11, we have Mercat, we have all the Saudi side. And this year, we've got a great lineup this year. I'm very excited because we've got basically the head of one of the Hollywood's most powerful PR firms is going to walk through the entire, they were responsible or one of the people that helped win Parasite, the Korean foreign film and Oscar. They did the PR work behind that.
Todd Albert Nims (32:40.75)
which is an important aspect of winning an Oscar. You wouldn't know that, but it is a major component. It's not as simple as having a good film. So the idea there is that by walking that through, that journey, then it's, well, that would be a similar path for a Saudi film, for example. Maybe there's one not ready yet, but by knowing the steps from now, everyone will know, okay, this is what we've got to do, because there's a lot of pre -planning.

Todd Albert Nims (33:09.678)
and all these kind of things. So we're gonna kind of walk through that and then also look at what's being done locally for these kind of things as well for their films. We have also the head of business affairs and legal business affairs for Netflix MENA region, which is fantastic because she's been in the region for a long time doing the, she's on the side of both dealing with legal matters and kind of the money matters and making everything work.

And that's really going to explain, so she's going to walk through, we're going to look at a lot of what studios and streamers are looking for in the MENA region and then compare what the locals are looking for and kind of walking through that, you know, what can work. And I think that's going to be a great session. We have the executive director of the California Film Commission, which is huge because obviously they do a lot in California. California is the biggest, still the center of film for the U .S. and arguably the world.

and, you know, so that we hope will mesh well with, they work with, for example, a lot of nonprofits and they work with all obviously regulations and as does the film commission here. So there's going to be sort of some parody, parody roundtable sessions on that where we all talk about those things. And then we've got the head of the, one of the, the executive string, the motion picture association, coming, which they represent all the big studios and like regulations and law they need. So.

That'll be great too, because that's, of course, they're always dealing with how the regulatory environment can help or hurt a country's business when it comes to film and working with it also. It's a solid lineup. It definitely is on the business side. I am also on the creative side. That's the part I love and I will always be dedicated to, but it does take both. Unfortunately, I can do both. And we need...

If we want to make it an industry here, we need to have this. So last year, we have a report that we put out last year, the US Saudi Film Forum Report 2023, that has a list of all the challenges that were brought up and all the real time recommendations that were brought up by the group. It's a group of about 40, 50 people that are all the executives, plus the US industry that, you know, so we provided that to several studios now and on the US side and other.

Todd Albert Nims (35:37.198)
prominent producers as well as giving it back to the Saudi, you know, because they want to see those too. Because what you need in this, sorry, I'll just read this to that point and I'll turn over to Richard. What you need on both sides is sometimes you think, I'm the only production company facing this or I'm the only producer facing this or I'm the only...
Todd Albert Nims (35:58.734)
Whatever lawyer facing these issues in the industry and what's nice is is you're all there agreeing Yes, these are issues and by the way that the guys that can solve it are saying this is what we'll do or this is our least Recommending you this is what you can do and so it's good because it's not just NPC saying or not just tell pause or not just you know this Purdue, you know, everyone's agreeing Yeah, this is a challenge and here's also recommendation. So it's nice because you put those things forward

And everyone, it can be sort of, okay, so I think this last year we marched where we were. Hopefully this year we're gonna revisit some of those things and also discuss a lot of other areas as well.

Richard Wilson (36:37.273)
I love this because again, something we talk about in the 966 a lot, you know, there's many, many goals. Vision 2030 is rife with massive, ambitious goals. We're really interested in implementation. And this speaks directly to implementation of their goals in terms of filmmaking for the country and that sort of thing. So I think it's really important. I want to get to two more questions and run through them. You mentioned the Cultural Development Fund.

Todd Albert Nims (36:51.918)
Yes.

Richard Wilson (37:05.593)
And they put up recently in February, they put up 40 % of a towards a Saudi film fund. This was February this year, $100 million Saudi film fund that's going to be headed by a investment group as well as a, I think a media ventures group. So the reason I ask is not so much specific on this fund, but they're putting a lot of money into the system.

Is it getting through? Is it being felt? I mean, there's making tremendous investments. And we've seen Saudi Arabia go full bore on things like tourism and entertainment. And so when they commit, they commit. Is that getting into the system? People are seeing this?

Todd Albert Nims (37:53.678)
Yeah, I mean, I think that particular fund has really yet to, I know they announced it again in February. It still hasn't launched, from my understanding. That being said, when it comes to, there are prominent funders that are definitely funding, there's the Red Sea Film Festival, there's the Saudi Film Festival, there's Ithra itself, and there's the Saudi Film Commission that have all been offering, you know, grants and funds that you can apply for.

for your films, which as a filmmaker, that's what you would do and hope that you get your project is something that's selected. So it's getting out there. If anything, we are in an environment where you still need that because although it is maturing, I don't think there's a lot of private investment just yet into films. There might be some.

Todd Albert Nims (38:52.654)
private investment into some infrastructure things and the tools to make films and things like that. But private investment in films is not really a huge thing just yet. They don't need that. Yeah, yeah, you need these, yes. And that fund is meant to be run to, I mean, it's meant to be run for profit, even though the CDF, the Cultural Development Fund, is putting those.

Richard Wilson (39:03.385)
So funds like this are very important. Yeah, funds like this are catalysts.

Todd Albert Nims (39:21.806)
that 40, well 30, 40 percent, whatever it is. I thought it was 30 percent, but if it's 40 percent, maybe I'm wrong. But if they're putting that in, it still needs to be a profitable venture, which is good. I mean, if part of their remit would be to invest in local films, and that's what should start happening.

Richard Wilson (39:39.289)
Right. Right. And again, you put those two things together, the US -Saudi film forum and investing and trying to get the practical aspects, because the point of the whole point of it is it's not Saudi Arabia has national priorities and wants to accomplish things, but investors need to make money. So, you know, trying to get those to match up is critical.

Todd Albert Nims (39:59.886)
Yeah. I mean, look, Saudi's running a thousand miles a minute. So it's, it's still, I mean, you know, that's why we're having these talks to try to catch, make sure we're all on the same page and the prior, the business priorities are being ticked off and they are, but sort of raising the, the flags on what's most, the most important things first, because, you know, it's, it's like anything is a checklist and, and especially international film people, they want to come in, but they need to see, you know, it's, it's like anything you want to see consistency, you want to see a safe environment. You want to see.
Todd Albert Nims (40:29.358)
your needs met. And that's where, you know, I don't want to say, I want to make sure if I sell someone something that it's legit, right?

Richard Wilson (40:37.433)
Yeah, yeah. Briefly, I wanted to talk about Nora. Nora is the first Saudi film screened at Cannes this year, and it sort of wraps up a lot of what we're talking about, because this is this was a film and you know this better than I. I'm just you know, but you know, by a well -known director, Taufiq Al Zayidi. And the story is about the restricted times, you know, that you reference, you know, it and.

And but also it's interesting again, because a number of themes you've touched about about, you know, this is a this is a well -established director. He's beginning recognized. He's being recognized for this. This is a big deal. He's taught his but the whole the movie is about when art artistic endeavors were really suppressed. But also, interestingly enough, it sort of got a bounce. Nora was, you know, was, you know, got an award from the Saudi Film Commission.

you know, back in 2019. So it got some support to move forward and now it's being screened, it was screened at Conn, which is kind of the whole story written in a little thing right here. It's quite a success.

Todd Albert Nims (41:49.934)
I mean, it's another, you know, it's another stake in the ground for the Saudi film industry, right? I mean, every little bit helps. We've had a lot, we've seen a lot of things this last, since we talked last, really. I mean, you've had, this is what we've seen since we chatted last was what I think I was even hoping would happen. I think we discussed it, my camera had to listen to our formal conversation. But one of the things that happened is that Saudi, the Saudi film, Satar,

broke all the box office records for the Middle East, right? They literally became the second best selling film of all time. The only thing that's surpassed it is Top Gun for the Mino region, the new Top Gun. And that's a huge thing to say, beat out all their Hollywood films. And it's not just the number, it's a number two film, not just Arab film or, and it just shows that Saudi film now is already, it's not only the biggest box office, also the dominating film type all of a sudden, right?
Todd Albert Nims (42:47.726)
Now all of a sudden, Saudi films are selling better than any film in the entire market. So that's a huge shift and that will bring more private investment. You had on top of that before this, you had a couple great, I mean, a few wonderful films around at least this year. They got a lot of critical acclaim, Naga. And then you had, my God, what's Ali Keltham's film? Mondoob?

which is like Delivery Guy, did really well, was in the Toronto Film Festival and got recognized, both of them did. And then now, now Nora, which is now, you know, screening it, you know, been accepted as a feature to screen at Cannes. We have had Saudi Films shorts do that, but this is a feature, which is, which is a new thing. And that's fantastic. I hope they win. You know, the awards haven't been given out or anything, but, but they,

They win something that's even better. But I do think you're going to see more of this coming down the pipeline with the more Saudi movies are made, the better they're going to get, the more international reach they're going to acquire. And I'm hoping to see a Saudi at the Oscars one day. I don't know if it'll be next year or it'll be 10 years from now, but who knows? But I do think there's a chance if this continues the way it is, there is an environment right now, even in the current environment doesn't grow anymore. There is an environment in which.

There is sustainable production right now on movies that you can just sell locally that you can make a profit on, which is very important because that means that some of these studios can be making movies full time and sustain themselves. That's a huge box office is already there and that's a big difference all along right there.

Richard Wilson (44:37.817)
So Todd, I want to close on, I don't think we can really end this discussion without spending a little time on the Middle East broadcasting company's monumental 21 episode series, Al Sharar.

Todd Albert Nims (44:49.174)
Okay, here we go, right.

Richard Wilson (44:52.857)
21 episodes set in early 1900s in central Saudi Arabia, an extraordinary story, you know, just again of epic proportions. And I hear there's an especially well played character in that, in that series. Western Explorer, I'm not sure. Can you tell us a little bit about, about this?

Todd Albert Nims (45:12.494)
Now you're really making me blush, this is great. So I had the great privilege of being an actor in this, one of these Ramadan epics. Historically, NBC for years now has played these kind of, they usually all take place around this time period of like early 1900s.
Todd Albert Nims (45:38.19)
Usually they're Syrian dramas or Turkish dramas or Egyptian or Lebanese or, you know, et cetera. And there are only like, this is one of the first, if not like a very, like they've kind of only done like a couple of things like this now where it's been, then this is of the central Saudi Arabia taking place. It's fictional, but it's also, you know, has aspects that are, you know, obviously it's from that time. That's the genre. It's a period piece.

I do play a character named Mark. I don't play a Saudi. I play a Westerner in the show. And I'll have to tell you how this happened. I got a call from NBC and they say, okay, you know, hey, we'd like to come home and talk to you. And I sit there and they go for an acting role. Okay, great. Because I've done, I have done like, you know, I'm very multi -hyphenated. I did like acting in Humbla and Timsah and a few other things in the past and I've done, I guess you provided a lot of, I've been overseen a lot of actor, I've been involved in actor training and.

directed at actors and stuff. So it's not like I'm unfamiliar with the art of acting. However, they kind of surprised me with a pretty good role. I'm in almost the whole series. But they approached me and I said, okay, let me meet the director. I like him, he's a very grounded guy. And then he explains to me, this is a time period. I'm like, I like this time period. You're playing a western, okay, good, check. And my buddy, Khaled Sager, he's an actor who's pretty well known. And when I used to do,
Todd Albert Nims (47:06.83)
working it through it, we provided three years of this actor training with the London, well, the National Youth Theatre out of London. We used to bring them over and do actor training. And a lot of these guys that are actually well -known actors now, some of them, you know, Holland Sager is one of them. So I've known him for years, probably 10, 15 years, 12 years, something like that now. And he's in it. So I was already like, hey, you're great. So this guy's telling me, you know, you're going to play this western and you, here's kind of the story. I was like, okay, wow, this is great. And then he goes in. And then.

And you're gonna, you know, you're gonna do sword, we're gonna give you sword fighter training and you're gonna ride horses. And I just said, I'm in. Really, I'm in. And that's, and that is when he laid it on me. Because, and you're gonna do Arabic the entire time.
Todd Albert Nims (47:55.886)
God, okay. But it was great. They gave me three months of tutoring. Mark's character, he is kind of a photographer slash he's supposedly British. I don't speak any English really in the whole thing. So I'm, I'm speaking Saudi and Nejdah, Bedouin Arabic, which is unique that I can actually speak that. And I think that's one of the reasons people surprisingly like what I'm doing because I don't have any other kind of accent. I definitely sound like a Saudi because I didn't learn it any other way. A lot of, a lot of Westerners.

sound like Egyptians or Jordanians or Lebanese or something. Yeah, so, or Poscha, right? I don't sound that way. I sound very local. So I think that's why people really liked it. But I was surprised at the response to my character in particular. First of all, I think the show exceeded my expectations. I didn't realize it was gonna be so well shot. The cinematography is really, really good. The quality is great. And so is the sound.
Todd Albert Nims (48:54.414)
design, both fantastic. And it's written by a Saudi female. So the whole thing's, and there's a lot of female interaction and drama in there. My character in particular, he's friends of the Sheikh, one of the local tribes. He's been in the region a while. You can tell they're friends. It doesn't really show much in the back story, but you can tell they're close, the Sheikh and this guy. And my character falls in love with a local girl.
Todd Albert Nims (49:22.798)
And from the Sheikh's village. And I was surprised at how much people were related to my character. Because you got to, what Ian thought, I want to give the whole thing away, but basically, you know, he falls on the local girl, he converts to Islam. He also fights on the side of the Sheikh. And still through all this, even when he fights and is helping in fighting these battles. And he's now a Muslim and all, it's like the father of the...

girl still rejects it. It isn't until they go through something completely different where they're, we don't know what's really going to happen, but they're basically, their lives are threatened together, the father and him, that the father finally starts to turn the corner. But I didn't think of it at the time in a bigger sense, but we have to remember that they're Saudi, like a lot of places in the world. You know, there's a lot of this where, you know, you fall in love with somebody and they're from the different tribes.

Todd Albert Nims (50:20.046)
or they're from the different part of Saudi or different nationality or, you know, this is the extreme right? A Westerner, right? And, you know, non -Muslim, but the fact that they're making the converting and showing that they, you know, want to be part of the, part of, you know, they want, they want to make the effort to do it. And a lot of people felt for this character, you know, because, and this situation, because it's one of the reasons why I think Titanic, if any Saudi will take this, was probably one of the -

most popular films of all time in Saudi for years. People talked about it because it's that love story between two totally different people. It's like a Romeo and Juliet, right? They can't be together. So this, this Romeo and Juliet type story. Anyway, I think I was surprised at how it touched and I've had a lot of friends in the West that have seen it now and they surprisingly, I thought they were just going to like check out my episode, like, you know, see a couple things with me. They, they gotten into the show and they love it. They were really,
hooked on it after the first few episodes, and said, God, this is really good. So I'm happy. I'm happy. Have you seen it? Yeah, I've probably seen it, but you'll have to check it out if you have a chance.

Richard Wilson (51:23.705)
think that's outstanding. That's outstanding. I will I well with that I have to see it and I didn't realize it was that the part was that big but this is great but anyway Todd Albert Nims storyteller, creator, director, producer, now movie star. Just just wonderful to be with you again. I just think it's

fitting that you're at the heart of all this change. And given that you're, as I said, you're Saudi cinema, OG, you were there at the beginning and it's wonderful to see it coming together. It's wonderful to see all the things you're doing to help it come together. Just really impressive.

Todd Albert Nims (52:05.23)
Well, thanks, Richard. It's a pleasure to be on the podcast again. I'm happy to come back anytime. I love what you guys do. Big fan of the 966. I hope it goes many, many more episodes in many more years.

Richard Wilson (52:16.953)
We'll do that. Thanks so much, Todd.